Transcript of Interview with Brian Butler about Theology Of The Body for Teens. This interview and others like it can be found at http://www.catholicspotlight.com
Listen Now to the audio version of the show.
Theology Of The Body for Teens is available at The Catholic Company.
http://search.catholiccompany.com/search?w=theology+of+the+body+brian+butler
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Chris Cash: And today in the Spotlight, we have Brian Butler author of Theology of The body for Teens from Ascension Press. How are you doing Brian?
Brian Butler: I’m doing great, Chris. Thank you so much for having me.
Chris Cash: Oh, well, we are extremely excited to have you on the show here today; because of Theology of The body is such a great piece of work. And it’s so hard to get your head around you know. And you have done just an excellent job of helping to break it down and put into a context that younger audience can grasp and get a hold of, so you know I really got to commend you for that.
Brian Butler: Thank you.
Chris Cash: Now, Brian can you tell me a little more about who you are and what your ministry is?
Brian Butler: Sure. I was raised in Louisiana and did a – you know grew up down here and then just went to college for communications. That’s my background and then got into theology and doing ministry with teenagers at parish level. And then doing teaching at a Catholic high school and doing Catholic ministry there. I founded a ministry called Dumb Ox Production that has just grown over the past you know 7 or 8 years. And we’re a non-profitable organization that I am full time with now doing chastity and vocation formation for teens. Really helping teens to come around in understanding who they are and who their calls would be and how they are called to live. And there really are a lot of connection between that concept and the Theology of The body. A lot aspect a lot of it the concepts that in our ministry are just totally interwoven with the Theology of The body as speaks to our identity of who you are and how we are called to live.
So, we’re just really excited to be able to share this message with anybody who you know is ready to listen with our passionism teenagers its really a great opportunity to share the gospel through this *** [2:34] in the Theology of The body.
Chris Cash: Now, how did this project get started? Were you approached by Ascension or did they approach you? How did you come up with the idea that this was the direction you wanted to go here?
Brian Butler: Well, as I got excited with Theology of The body and sort of learning more about it, I started using bits and pieces of it at the teenager’s talks or retreats. And even in the class service, its sort of the light bulbs go off. Like I’ve never had before anything about that he had taught. And so, I dug deeper in it and well started planning through Dumb Ox to possibly publish something. You know Theology of The body for guys, Theology of The body for girl’s booklets so to speak. And I approached Ascension you know talking about that idea and it just kind of moved from that small project that we planned on doing ourselves into I had already worked with Ascension for a number of years, and more than to – because they already had ideas to do a bigger project. And its just kind of came together and God you know I think blessed in a lot of means, it’s a great privilege to work with Jason and Crystalina Evert. Jason Evert has done a lot of great, great work with the Church and for teenagers across the country to chat with them. And he did the Theology of The body well, so we came together and co-authored this project together. And it’s just been phenomenal to be a part of it. That’s really a privilege.
Chris Cash: Now, there has been a tremendous amount of material put together on Theology of The body besides just let the pope himself wrote, we’ve got you know books by – book after book after book by Christopher West, Steve Kellmeyer and several others who have done excellent jobs of helping to break this down. What – were you using any of their work as you got started as a helpful starting point or did you kind of just jump in off of your own knowledge and straight from the source text?
Brian Butler: Well, I think anybody that digs into the primary source text, whether you are a theologian or a – you know – you know or you are an average Catholic has trouble with it, because just theology is you know 800 pages long. And the pope’s approach is one that inspires, in a sense that we hear similar concept again and again, and to starts wondering if you repeat the same thing in your own head or if you are really advancing with that anytime. But he uses things little bit differently the second time around, so it’s kind of confusing.
As I you know was working with it, I started getting these pieces and I did need help myself though I was in a masters program and had the teachers helping me in. Definitely, I also went to some of those you know commentaries from other authors, but I really I saw a need, as you said there has been much been written, but there had not been anything written in a comprehensive system and sort of presentation of the full Theology of The body for Teenagers. There are many books that had some of the concepts in it, some of the – using it as background for chastity, but not really a comprehensive presentation. And so, that was what we set up to do. And I think the – we’ve achieved it in a sense, because there really has been good results from people using it across the country. So, that’s about it.
Chris Cash: When you sat down to approach this, how did you approach it different than a work that you were writing for adults on Theology of the Body? What did you do with the material to really gear it toward a teen audience?
Brian Butler: Oh, I think a couple of different things we did. One I used my knowledge and Theology, our knowledge of teenagers and the fact that’s how they like to *** [6:24]. One being the story, I’ve found over the years the teenagers just you know they’d rather not have you ask them their permission of whether they would like to *** [6:37] their concept, but if you start now with a story that’s meaningful or interesting or humorous, they are interested in it and then you make a connection with the story to the concept or real live. And there is – it’s just a fun way to learn. So, we really did that in the chapters. Every single chapter opens with a strong dramatic story of some type and they can be pulled from those stories of – we can make bridges from those stories with the content of the Theology of The body. And its just makes it a little bit easier to see it reflected in real life stories, real people lives.
And jump all the approaches, one of the person living that really speaks to our heart, not just heavy theology, but yes just to look inside of our hearts. So, we tried to take an approach with teens and we do that, so we jump off right at the beginning of the book, there is a chapter one called Craving for Love. It just happens straight into that desire the teenagers have to be loved. I mean, they dire that more than anything else. To be in good relationships, they’ll actually end up hurting each other and try to find it, because they are craving so much. And so, we have to do that and use the stories, lots of different popular cultural references and analogies. And as we looked up very well, one other things we did specifically for the teen audiences, that we changed the order a little bit the pope’s *** [8:01]. We didn’t change his content although, we changed the order in which we presented the teens, because we felt like there were couple of things that they would easier grasp on to it if we did the first one thing. We put the section of marriage actually before the section of *** [8:18] people of kingdom. The pope has with the opposite direction; he presented *** [8:21] kingdom, first in order to reflect life on marriage. But we reversed it because of the fact that the teenager should have so much pain and so much heartache around marriage these days, and understanding and so much fear about *** [8:36]. We just felt that they wouldn’t easily be able to wrap their heads around *** [8:40] first. So, we kind of minister to them through painting a beautiful picture of marriage first and then showing that this great value of love and this is the kingdom after that. That’s the second half of the book, but that’s just one of the things that we did specifically for teenage audiences, we would not have done for adult audiences.
Chris Cash: Now, is this book also filled like colorful illustrations or is it pretty much…?
Brian Butler: It’s got two color and they did a great job and *** [9:10] great job of putting a bunch of little – I tried to use what we call a multiple intelligence group approach, which really helps teenagers, especially the teens maybe who can’t stick through the entire you know chapter you know just reading every line by line. There is a lot of breakout boxes on the side, little you know, little pictures here and there, quotes from the culture, quotes from the saints, *** [9:33] references, stats, statistics, stats little did you knows. We have one section called *** [9:44] to be *** [9:45] up an idea, you just *** [9:48] you decide. Or *** [9:48] up an idea from the cultures again an idea from John Paul II right next to each other. One verses the other, and then it really came out well, because a young person can just see dramatically what the difference is in approach, and how much more attractive John Paul’s and how much more wise his approach is than somebody from the world.
We have things from – one we have in our chapter two is from *** [10:18], there is a rapport that everybody knows who he is, it says which of the following people do you think has a better understanding of love in *** [10:24]? $50 is a *** [10:26] just a little bit and he has supported, all I need is a little bit. Not a lot baby girl, just a little bit versus Saint John Christopher who says, “A young husband should say his wife I have taken you in my arms and I love you. And I prefer you to my life itself, for the present life is nothing and my most ardent dream is to spend it with you in such a way that you maybe assured that nothing separate him in the life reserved for us.” Well, you present that to a young lady and ask her which guy she things she’d rather be with, and you know one that the second version is so much attractive and so much more about girl love. So, you think like that throughout the book that really helped bridge that gap.
Chris Cash: That sounds like a really excellent approach there. So, what – how is this book structured as you start to go through it?
Brian Butler: Well, its 12 chapters, 12 lessons so to speak, where we begin in chapter one with…
Chris Cash: Now, is this set up so that it can be used like with a youth group on like 12 nightly basis or something that…?
Brian Butler: Yes, we try to make it as multiple use friendly as we could. And being that we all had various experiences in those different areas, I think it worked out well. So, and after we’ve been – before I go into that more, after we published the book we still had people saying, “Well, how can I do this in this setting? How can I do this next setting?” And we published something else afterwards the smaller little thing that called The Guide to the Guide. Because we have workbooks for you know students or teenagers, then we have a leaders guide, but some people still felt like they needed more help. So, I went back through the readers guide and picked out four different options that people can use time wise.
So, if you’re on a youth group and your time is only 60 minutes, I went through and gave you – you know if you only have 60 minutes with the chapter, this is what I suggest you do. If you have 90 minutes, 75 minutes for the chapter, this is what I suggest you do. If you have 90 minutes for the chapter, this is what I suggest you do. If you have a 120 minutes for the chapter, this is what I suggest you do. So, its really just helps people along to know exactly what you just said. How to use it in different settings. We have icebreakers in every chapter, so that those people who would like to use it in youth groups can have you know that available to them. There is – those who want to use it in schools, there are projects throughout and homework assignments that are possibilities, further learning assignments, group projects, examples and illustrations, things to use in the classroom. There is a keyword, a glossary at the end of each chapter that has definition. So, it really – we try our best to make it useable in both formats, those who want to do the *** [13:14] group thing and those want to do it in religious education.
Chris Cash: And what kind of feedback are you getting from youth ministers?
Brian Butler: It’s been, it’s been great. Those who use it have been – they’re saying things like you know our kids are responding better to this than they have to – part of the things that we’ve been doing recently. Well, I had kids that weren’t coming around you know consistently, but once we’ve started this theories you know they got really interested and came more often. There has been – you know there has been certain hurdles for them to jump, because some youth ministers feel like going for 12 weeks on a certain issues for youth groups is a lot. And so, some of them started to break it up you know and do, you know maybe three nights…
Chris Cash: Well, on that note, sexuality tends to be one of the more favorite issues in my experience with youth groups.
Brian Butler: You are absolutely right, you are absolutely right. So, that’s it. And one of the reasons why I am *** [14:12] on the other side when it’s being not true…
Chris Cash: And not always so much – and it’s not always so much because they are over sexualized. It’s because they want to come to an understanding of what the proper place is for this, when they are being inundated with this so much in culture?
Brian Butler: They are so, so hungry for the truth. You are absolutely right, they are so hungry and they want answers to the questions. And a lot of people for a long time have danced around the issue with that. Well, intention people have not given ‘em the answers that they are seeking, not necessarily telling – I’m not saying that telling them what they want to hear, because a lot of times the church teaching is not what they want to hear. I mean, it doesn’t – its not convenient. But really this teaching helps break open in a very clear and holistic way. Gods planned for us and our sexuality, so it’s no longer the list of rules. That’s just what I can’t do.
My own cousin who is a – just graduating from high school this year went through this – you know did some of this program and said to me, you know Brian, I am a good guy and I used to you know have my own sort of issues along the way. But I tried to do the right thing and for a long time all I had was a list of things I couldn’t do. He said with Theology of the Body and what you guys of done, I know have a list of the things that I can do. And I see the way that I want to live, and I want to live that way. And that was, that was one of the most touching things to me was to have actually a relative of mine who I love dearly be able to help him in that way.
Chris Cash: Okay, well we’re going to take a short break here to hear from our sponsor, and when we come back we’ll be talking more with Brian Butler, author of Theology of the Body for Teens. And this is the Catholic Spotlight.
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Chris Cash: And we’re back on the Catholic Spotlight with Brian Butler, author of Theology of the Body for Teens. So, Brian, could you tell us about the process of writing this book? Were there any specific parts of the book that were just really tough for you to get your hands around, and to try to break down in a clear and concise way?
Chris Cash: Well, I would kind of point to couple of different areas. One, chapter four is on hope and redemption and Christ. And what we are trying to do is *** [18:01] in that chapter, it’s really the personal side of the teenager that’s coming of through this program having a lot of their own issues in their own baggage, the check at their door. And then, carrying that stuff with them and by the time you get to chapter four, it’s a very pivotal chapter. Are they going to be looking out with hope, or they going to be looking at themselves with guilt and you know and our program is very much hope filled. But it’s a pivotal chapter to see you know are they going to be able to kind of turn things over to Christ and allow them to really redeem them and pull them out of maybe any bad habits that they have. Now, to forgive them and to not chain them, but to bring them a new life. So, that’s on the one hand personal side.
And on the content side, we have a *** [18:45] man, which is a little bit of a difficult concept. If you just start with the words, and so we were starting to do that in chapter four and kind of breaking that down to them. I feel like it came out very well, but it was a tough chapter to write. The one other area that was kind of an interesting difficulty was as I told you earlier we started of each chapter with a great story and I really wanted for chapter 8 on marriage. And I just wanted to have the supreme love story. You know I just wanted the one that would knock ‘em all over the park. And you know, my wife and I, we have a good story but it was kind of too long and some others that you know gave me suggestions. And I was just wasn’t finding the right one and the publishing deadline was upon me and I still didn’t have a story for chaptering. Everything else was done.
And my dad actually gave me – you know I was talking to him in my frustration, and he told me about this guy. He’d heard on the radio years ago. And I started to look him up and I finally found at the end of the business day and I found a number online for this guy’s office. You know and it was about a guy who had actually gone military, who was married right before he left to got to Vietnam, and then he got severely injured. And I was told the back of the story was this love survived through the war.
Well, I looked into it deeper, I made the call and I couldn’t get anybody. I made another call to another number that I found and I finally got a woman on phone. And she told me the story of this young man who you know proposed to this high school sweetheart and then is taken to Vietnam, gets him to some severe fire fights and one day he is on a river board control, and he is actually you know just suddenly senses that something is not right you know. And he is the captain so he is trying to get his men out, he reaches for a fast first grenade, he told the tent to try to throw it. Everything is silent, and he wants to throw it to create a smoke screen to get his men out. And as he is throwing the grenade, he hasn’t even left his hand and he gets shot through the back of his hand, and explodes the fastest grenade in his hand right next to his head. And he was severely – you know half his body was blown off into the water, you know fell into the water on fire and he wakes up in the helicopter with a medic trying to shake – stick a dog tag in his mouth. And he is actually alive and he coughs a bit, you know kind of who is the medic almost jumped up the helicopter when he realized the guy was still alive.
But the long story shorter is that he goes throughout the surgeries and he is waiting in hospital for his wife to come, and see him. But he is now a half headed freak according to what he thinks, and so he has been faithful to her in Vietnam and has really you know not into pornography and not into the prostitutes, and not into doing all that stuff. He was faithful to her, and now he’s just waiting to see if she is going to stay faithful to him. And the guy next to him in bed over has no skin on his body, and he hears his wife come in and throw the ring out at his back and never walked down the street again.
So, he is petrified. The woman his wife does – her name is Brenda, she walks in and looks at him and doesn’t even recognize, and so she checks the name on the bed bends down next to him and kisses him on his face and says, “Welcome home Dave. I love you.” And you know so I’m listening to this story with this lady on the phone, and I am just amazed and I said, “Well, is it really a story about marriage or its just the story about you know the hero who come home and you know? And she said, “Well, they’ve been married for 38 years, so I think it’s a story about marriage.” And I was like wow, that’s amazing. I said, “Thank you so much for this,” and you know and so was going to send me some more information. And getting off the phone I said, “Ma’am what was your name again?” And she said my name is Brenda. And I said, “My gosh, are you his wife?” And she said, “Yes, I am.” And I just started crying on the phone with her, I was like thank you for the witness of love to the world that you are and thank you for sharing this story with us. So, that was just a *** [22:54] gift that god gave us for chapter 8.
We do have a powerful love story there that kind of shows the faithfulness of marriage *** [23:03] Christ. I think this guy did have a relationship, they had a relationship with Jesus, so it was *** [23:09] moment to kind of cap off a tough chapter.
Chris Cash: Wow, that is just an incredible test in it you know specially when you think about how easily people drop each other for just about anything, you know an *** [23:26] into marriage nowadays.
Brian Butler: Right, right.
Chris Cash: Now, have you got any interesting feedback from the youth ministers using this in terms of lives changed? Do you have any stories about the people who have been part of these programs really turning their lives around because of it?
Brian Butler: Yes, I’ve got numerous e-mails from people saying that things have just been fantastic, that the teenagers are – their lives are being changed. One who told me about they had kind of end of the, the semester party or would not. And the kids all brought a big thank you for the teachers and the youth ministers, thanking them for you know helping them change their lives.
And I work – I’ve been working with a number of teenagers on this you know for last couple of years, and have had a bunch of kids and I’ve worked with one in particular that stands out a young man who you know would come on retreats with us, and was just living a double life you know. He didn’t understand himself, he would you know being – come on retreat and go to *** [24:28], and just totally seem like was in it. And then you know, the next time be sleeping with his girlfriend and he just didn’t have any *** [24:36]. And over the couple of years of working with him you know one year where he went through this material, and then another year where he kind of reviewed some of it. Now going of to college, he is just totally changed and transformed his wife and now he is actually turning to priesthood. So, those are some beautiful stories.
One last one that I would share is a friend mine who’s a teacher who taught in the Catholic high school. He sent me an e-mail saying that she went to the Adoration Chapel one night and one of her girls was in the Adoration Chapel and right next to her in the Adoration Chapel was with Theology of the Body for Teens book. And I thought wow, if we can actually help teenagers to you know take their lives and go straight to Christ with them, that’s a beautiful thing.
Chris Cash: That is a tremendous test right there to see the life blood work that you put together being poured out into real life, and really effecting people in that way. And I know that feeling, and Brian it has been great to have you on the show. And I certainly would highly recommend anybody who is working with teenagers to check this book out; it has huge potential to change every life that it comes in contact with. Thank you.
Did you have anything else real quick that you wanted to share with our listeners before we head out?
Brian Butler: Now, people can you know get more information about the Theology of the Body for Teens book. *** [26:09] they can buy through your Website, they also you can check all the other resources or look into the samples videos, the DVD series that we just came out with to complement the book. And tobforteens.com, if anybody wants to learn more about our ministry, a non-profit organization, Dumb Ox Production at dumboxproductions.com.
Chris Cash: Thank you Brian, you have a wonderful day and God bless.
Brian Butler: Thank you so much for having me Chris, and God bless you too.
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Transcript of Interview with Brian Butler about Theology Of The Body for Teens. This interview and others like it can be found at http://www.catholicspotlight.com
Listen Now to the audio version of the show.
Theology Of The Body for Teens is available at The Catholic Company.
http://search.catholiccompany.com/search?w=theology+of+the+body+brian+butler